If you sell or promote products online and you accept payments through PayPal, I encourage you to read this entire post…It’s THAT important.
This article is not intended to scare you. But instead to make you aware of the changes that are taking place in the IM market.
Here’s my story…
I have personally processed over $1,000,000 in sales through PayPal in the last few years. I remember hearing the horror stories years ago about merchants having their accounts and all their money frozen for several months.
I remember thinking, “That will never happen to me. I just sell information products. I’ll be fine as long as I stay away from MLM and other high-risk business opportunities.”
BOY, was I WRONG!
PayPal recently froze my account and they’re keeping over $6,000 for six months. But that’s not the worst part! They canceled well over $23,000 in recurring subscriptions.
70% of my income, GONE in 60 seconds!
You know what their reason was? They said my site was a work-at-home business opportunity site and that it violated their terms of service!
I told them that it’s an application that builds iFrame Pages on Facebook. “It’s just SOFTWARE!” But they wouldn’t listen…They froze my account and refused to take my calls.
But it gets even worse…
I needed some cash flow, so I developed a new Facebook App called the Optin App and I launched it in the Warrior Special offer forum with my friend Todd Gross. Since I didn’t have a PayPal account, we ran the sales through Todd’s account.
We dumped about $74K into that account in 3 days and we were transferring the money to our bank accounts as soon as it came in. A couple weeks went by and all was good until Todd called me the other day. His PayPal account was permanently frozen – just like mine.
This guy named David at PayPal said it was MLM. It’s a SOFTWARE application and the sales letter doesn’t even talk about making money from home or anything like that. Todd argued with him…asked him if he even knew what MLM was…
He said, “These types of sites are high risk and against our terms of service.” That’s exactly what he said…
Yesterday, my friend Spencer (one of THE top sellers in the WSO forum) got his account shut down too. He sells Word Press plugins. I started talking to other Warriors and discovered that dozens of people have been shut down in the last few weeks. I hate to tell you this, but…
PayPal is Out to Get US!
PayPal Doesn’t Like Internet Marketers! They don’t like affiliate programs. They will shut you down if they find you’re selling anything that has to do with work at home or making money online.
But here’s the IRONY: PayPal allows ClickBank to sell some of the WORST business opportunity products on the planet and they have the highest refund rates! That’s right, ClickBank (not the merchant) sells the products through PayPal.
But we’re just little fish, right? Too much of a risk for the mighty PayPal.
What can you do?
My advice is to get familiar with an alternate processor like ClickBank, 2CheckOut or AlertPay. I’m using my merchant account to process credit cards through Authorize.net and haven’t seen any drop in conversions. Everybody has a credit card, right?
I’m also setting up a new project with AlertPay. They are exactly like PayPal except they allow business opportunities and even MLM programs. It states that right in their terms of service. The cool thing about AlertPay is that they approve your site before you can accept credit cards. So there’s nothing to worry about.
I based my entire business on PayPal. Now I’m starting over. Don’t make that mistake.
Check out these sites: http://screw-paypal.com and http://paypalsucks.com.
Sign this petition! http://paypalpetition.com/petition/petition.shtml
Take a Stand! Leave a comment and tell me what you think…
All the best!
Derrick
This happened to me too Derrick. The guy “David” at Paypal actually tried to claim that typical products that we promote were “pay per click” and “MLM”. His lack of knowledge (which he actually argued with me about, btw) cost me thousands of dollars, both in frozen funds and recurring income.
Dozens of other marketers that I know have been frozen, “Limited”, and to this day, I can’t tell you how many marketers have their heads in the sand and say “well, just submit requested information and they’ll turn it back on as long as you didnt do anything that breaks their TOS”. It simply isnt true. They admitted to me after I pressed them that they just don’t like any, ANY work-at-home type products, they are “too risky”.
Seconds before I read Derrick’s post (and I’ve been talking to him about this too) I applied for 2 Checkout, and am considering taking Derrick and other’s suggestions on using Authorize.net. Clickbank can also be used as a payment processor.
And the saddest part, Derrick thinks his 6,000.00 is frozen for 6 months only, as Paypal attests, yet my friend Mark was unable to get to his funds for 13 months, because they throw all kinds of legal loopholes at you before releasing the funds, or at least they did in his case! (“It has been turned over to our legal department”, excuses like that)
So why are we still using paypal? The affiliate programs are based on them.. but those affiliate programs need to start thinking about change. Whether it is Alert Pay, Clickbank, or something else.. Rapid Action Profits, Warrior Plus, Digiresults, and hundreds of affiliate programs need to address this as our options are becoming narrower and narrower each and every month as Paypal acts with hostility to the entire Internet Marketing community as a whole.
hey Derrick sorry to hear about your troubles. Unfortunately I’ve been through a couple of messy situations with PayPal as well over the years.
Yes, having your own merchant account is definitely the way to go, just got to carefully watch the refund & chargeback ratios. All the best cheers JB
Derrick, Todd…I’m really really sorry to hear that.
Wow..for a sec I was on your skin. It’s HARD.
There is nothing that can be tell for this disaster.
Wish you all my good thoughts.
Hey Derrick,
thanks for the heads up.. I am actually new to internet marketing & I was just looking into using paypal for a few sites I have been working on. I will definitely be looking elsewhere now.
And by the way Optin App is awesome.
-Brian McC
Hi,
even germany some classic business have frozen account; all the time there are horror stories.
They are too big and too rich, like Google. So they can afford slap customers.
How will Instant Commissions work without Paypal? Any idea? Is AlertPay “instant commission-able”?
Best regards from Cologne
joachim
Wow Derrick I am so sorry to read this man.
Your right we should have options the headache is dealing with authorize.net had a horrible experience with them.
But will look at 2CheckOut or AlertPay. but I can’t stand clickbank frankly. Just too many as you even said piss poor products and a history supporting (though in the past now) the forced continuity scams.
Knock on wood no major issues with PayPal but as you said that could change.
Thanks for your insight.
Hi Derrick
Thanks for sharing this. It’s been happening for a while I think.
Why is it that so-called pioneers of internet commerce like Google and PayPal have to behave in this way? Talk about ignorant…
I can’t use Authorize.net – they require a US bank account – so it looks like Alertpay are going to get my business.
Best regards
Steve H.
Hi Guys,
I am really sorry to hear this.. I hate this!
I have been frozen twice but i managed to get my account back to normal and so far so good, but now I need to be more careful after what happened to you guys.
Yesterday one of my subscriber also pointed that he wanted to buy one of my products in payspree and he could not pay it, i checked it with him I saw the payment went to Gary (the payspree owner), it looks like Gary’s account also got suspended.
This is really scary…
Can you guys file a law suit against paypal?
They must be taught how to treat their clients well…
Heri
Yeah not good! I’ve been burned by PayPal in the past so now I’ll only keep $1K or $2K in there for biz purposes. I’m keeping any eye on AMEX’s Serve and hoping that they or maybe Square might soon offer something better.
Wow! I was just starting to think I should check out PayPal – never had a problem with my merchant but thought maybe the fees were getting a little high. Thanks for the heads up, I’ll stay put.
Wow Derrick I am so sorry to read this, all I can say is WOW, still try and enjoy you vacation.
Guess I better go set up Google Checkout on my sites and go ahead and get approved on Alert Pay to sell products there. It is best to learn from other internet professionals and not get shut down.
Hi Derrick,
I’ve been in your shoes. My account was frozen years ago and had a $7,000 a month membership site, which had all the recurring payments cancelled when my account was reinstated. So I had no choice but to close the site.
Having said that, I would encourage you to continue trying to fix your account. One thing that can cause your account to be flagged is to not increase the amounts of monthly payments you will be receiving. This something that PayPal users must do theirselves.
I’m depending a lot on PayPal because I have created a new software that I will be releasing later this year that uses the PayPal Adaptive API.
PayPal is not a bank but only a money transfer company. They are not licensed in every state. You can see if they are licensed in your state here…
https://www.paypal-media.com/licenses
If they are you can contact the licensing agency listed at PayPal’s site for your state to see if they will intervein in your issue. I believe if you take that route you will find the PayPal will be more accomodating. By PayPal not being a bank, they have no legal way to hold your money.
I hope this helps,
Steve Yakim
Thanks Steve, that’s really good information!
Something that should be mentioned is that Paypal was not this bad until eBay took them over. That is when they began the systematic attack on Internet Marketers. They were once a small business! But once they got too big for their britches, they began to think that they don’t need the small fry anymore.
If someone can program an alertpay interface for RAP or some of the other product sales platforms out there, it will help us wean ourselves away from Paypal.
Take care,
Micheal
Good point Micheal, I’m already on it
I have a story from the other side of the loop. I changed the credit card i was using for paypal to my Citibank Visa card and i got a call from Citibank saying that they’d noticed a new bunch of paypal transactions on my credit card and even though I confirm that the payments were accurate they cancelled my credit card! They did issue a new one but now i have to go and change all the re-ocurring payments that are on my original credit card!
The trouble is that as long as vendors are using paypal we’re stuck with buying via paypal.
it doe make it so convenient as well as you don’t have the fear of putting in your credit card details direct online. The only solution is to stop buying stuff…not a bad idea!:)
Sorry to hear about this issue with paypal Derrick.
Cheers,
Tamar
@Todd Gross
As a Merchant, don’t forget about using Plimus. They seem reliable JackSpag
Sorry this happened to you Derrick. Why does it seem to happen to the straight-shooters more often than to the ones who deserve it? Makes no sense.
The problem is Paypal is not subject to any banking laws and the consumer/merchant protections those laws bring. So, in essence, they are a bank that doesn’t have to play by the rules real banks do. They can make their own and change them whenever they feel like it.
But the real problem is there isn’t really an alternative that is as popular as PP. Sure, you can use the others that you have mentioned but what we really need is a payment processor that understands IM and will work with marketers. Seems like a few of the “big dogs” could get together and make it happen. Your thoughts?
Kind regards,
Ken
Hello Derrick:
For years I have read and known about the behavior of Paypal. It really is to be horrified about the unjust actions they take, the unfounded reasons they argue and the long period of time taken to resolve these situations, regardless of the damage done to the victims. I am not a U.S. citizen and I wonder why the law in this country allows the ugly actions of Paypal. One wonders how can they make that much money with their so unfair actions. I hope not ever have that problem. But with such people, who knows what can happen.
J. Moreno
They froze my accounts the same way. That is why i say get into the class action suit against Paypal for their dirty business practices. They need to be shut down permanantly. Alertpay is the best way to go. I highly recommend them. Take my advice take all your money out of Paypal and terminate the account. Use Alertpay instead and if everyone joined in then Paypal will have to shut down. Dont use Paypal in ebay either, use Moneybookers or Google checkout. Stay away from Paypal.
THANK YOU!!! I am just opening an affiliate account, I hope, and I have my personal website to now worry about with this stuff. I had heard a bit about it, but this opens the eyes WIDE and I will see how to operate outside of PayPal. Again, THANK YOU for the email!!!!
Derrick, Todd, tough lesson, sorry for your troubles.
Thank you for the heads up. I will share this message.
AlertPay is great, I have not had a problem with them.
success my friends,
Ken Pringle
P.S. I have purchased products from you both.
They have always been top notch. Thanks.
Thanks for your warning!
Derrick I think that you are getting OFF a little here on the left field.
OK so you got taken by PayPal and you are mad I understand that and I would be mad too, but then you go on bashing MLM and everyone else and their mother.
What if I were to tell you that your teachings and programs does not work and that everything you are selling is a scam? would I be wrong saying that? or would all your followers be up in arms and even you would be rightfully arguing that your product was not a scam and that you had many customers that was very happy and had made a ton of money.
OK enough said, I think that most of us would agree that your products are great and what you teach is right on and does make people money, but here is the trigger.
“IT ONLY WORKS IF YOU WORK WHAT YOU LEARNED AND SELL WHAT YOU GOT”
Did I miss something? MLM is a fantastic opportunity and when you join “go for it” run fast and make a ton of money because the company, the product or the opportunity could be gone tomorrow.
Derrick I think that what you do is great and I enjoy your teachings but in all honesty are you going to be around forever???
We don’t know that do we, we believe you and hope wish and pray that you will be around long enough to give us the support we need to have to get it all to work and the once that comes after us… oh well that’s your problem..
Don’t bash MLM, we are a lot of folks that worked these BUSINESSES very hard and made a ton of money, actually I think that we worked a lot harder than you have ever worked and all we did was to get compensated for our time and training, just they way yopu are getting paid except we all got paid in time…
Keep up the good work… we will be praying for you…
Ivan
I think you misread that Ivan. I was simply stating that I didn’t think what I was selling broke PayPal’s terms of service. They specifically include MLM and business opportunities in their list of unacceptable business models.
I’m still one of the top earners in GVO, which is a multi-level program and I’m getting ready to re-launch “Direct Pay Profits” with a reverse 2-Up compensation plan. So don’t think I’m “bashing” MLM dude.
Thanks guys for a very timely post. I have not had my account shut down but every month or so PayPal decide to ‘investigate’ a payment – in other words decide for no reason whatsoever that (fraud is quoted as the reason…) a transaction should be looked into.
The result ALWAYS is they refund the customers money… The reason I get is that I did not provide ‘shipping details’… How can I it was a ‘digital download of software’…
I am seriously looking for an alternative, thanks for the heads up, before it’s to late!
All the best,
Steve
Hi Derrick
I just read your artcle and the two sites, I’m in France and I had never heard of this problem with PayPal. I must say that it is scary and I will begin to interest me this problem more seriously
I used your software and opt-in app I am happy thank you very much
Cordially
Dominique Bulteel
Tough break Derrick and thanks for such an honest article. Having sold stuff for years using Paypal I’m now seriously considering opening a merchant account. I don’t think people would be adverse to you posting your affiliate links to any of these merchants either ;o) Might help offset the loss a little?
Seems to Me With All these Marketers Upset it Might Be Better To Put “P.R.” Pressure On Paypal To To The “Right Thing” and Also Make them realize The Volume Of Business They are about to Lose
Unfortunately, all the sales from Internet marketers combined are still just a drop in the bucket compared with huge corporations who accept PayPal like Amazon.
Oh that is NOT good, I really feel for you… It makes me very angry how these big businesses can basically do anything they want, if we treated our Customers like that, we would have Trading Standards on us!
I went to an Armand Morin seminar years ago and he had the same happen to him, he kept on and on saying ‘never use Paypal, get a merchant account’ – really kept emphazing how important that was, and he certainly knows what he is doing. I had never heard of Alert Pay, so thanks for the heads up!
What a stressful experience, especially cancelling your recurring income! Hope you are recovering okay from it all now,
All the best,
Shell
Truely sorry to know how cruel things happened to good and helpful person like you. Its a blessing indisguise and i belief strongly those under your wings will fly higher from your strenght…
Thank you for the warning Derrick. I am not (yet) very active as internet marketer.
Recently I got to know PowerPay, not personally but during a webinar of a well known guy in the business (forgot who) they were praised as best partners for us internet marketers.
They know internet business very well and are not surprised when all of a sudden big money is flooding your account. Support is very communicative so it was told. From what I heard at that webinar and the information on their website (www(dot)PowerPay(dot)com) I would truly recommend them as partners in payment processing.
Peter Moog
CORRECTION: Website is www(dot)PowerPay(dot)biz not …(dot)com!
Yep, I use PowerPay. So does Ryan Deiss, Armand Morin, Frank Kern, Lee McIntyre, and every other big-name marketer.
My Paypal account was deactivated for 18 months because I closed the US bank account that was associated with Paypal. I could receive and deposit payments but couldn’t withdraw until I got another US bank account. Because I’m not a US citizen It took me a while to get another US bank account without traveling to the US and to re-verify the Paypal account. After getting the US bank account, I withdrew most of the funds and only keep a minimum amount of cash in Paypal. I use an international merchant account for most of my transactions and have never had any problems with them.
On the WF I am Webmustang/Jerome 007
Same thing happened to my Paypal account. (they put a permanent limitation)
In 3 days they froze my account, kept $4.000 for 6 months until all “”refunds”" are processed.
The guy a Paypal told me that they were looking into the Warrior Forum and this is not the kind of business they want to be associated with and who are those warriors anyway.
Plus the guy said they are looking into WarriorPlus as all transactions were referred to through/by WarriorPlus, so if anyone knows a Warrior or Mike Lantz, just to let you know…. It’s coming!
Don’t get too comfy with Paypal or think it won’t happen to you.
Since my account got frozen by Paypal, I met dozen of small and BIG guys that got accounts closed for no reason besides, the whims of some pencil pusher.
Have fun!!
Best regards
Jerome
PASS THIS ONE TO ALL YOUR AFFILIATES
PASS THIS ON TO ALL YOUR FRIENDS
PASS THIS ON TO ALL YOU KNOW
It is coming!
I have a bad feeling about my PayPal account after all this commotion(unverified in fact)….I am a international newbie marketer and some affiliate companies are still using PayPal. YET some companies haven’t been hit hard yet due to the recent PayPal attacks which makes me wonder, am I really going to make any money at all? AND to make things worse there is no other option to send or receive money by either AlertPay or check with those programs. Looks like I have a lot of work deleting accounts due to PayPal being the ONLY option for them internationally.
But In all brightness though I did manage to signup with AlertPay at the same time.
Thanks a Bunch Derrick. Sigh…..hoo boy I have piles of work ahead of me.
I have always hated paypal, I see them as a Racist/ Partial people.
@Danielle Parsons
am going for Alertpay.
olha eu ja nao estou usando o paypal eu estou com virtapay ele esta começando so que por enquanto esta em test esta vendendo apenas vendas digitais primeira fase na segunda fase estara entrando a venda de produtos para entrega ok eu ja estou com mais de $5,500.00 ok
http://www.virtapay.com/r/realvalter este e o endereço
valter villa real
English translation
look I’m no longer using paypal virtapay I’m starting him this for now so that in this test is only selling digital sales in the first phase the second phase will be entering the sale of products for delivery ok I’m already over $ 5,500.00 ok
http://www.virtapay.com/r/realvalter and address this
Valter villa real
Thanks all. NOTE: I just heard from Jerome off the warrior forum and he too was shut down, and he spoke to another person there, a guy named Kasey. They’re after all these kinds of programs such as Warrior Plus, which is the forum’s main affiliate program, so that means they’ll also target Digiresults, RAP, and more.. Its awful for us, but with Derrick’s programming skills, we should be able to get some help, I hope.. with some sort of alternative
OMFG!
Thanks for sharing this Derrick. I believe this to be a true story coming from you and mentioning “Simple Spencer” and Todd’s case is what made me rethink my Paypal situation. Why this occurs is pretty hard to say. You should think they did not want to risk such a foul play in their own backyard. I mean people notices this and put up sites like the ones you reffered to immideatly.
Don’t know what to say… Just an awful situation really.
Hey Derrick,
Several years ago this same thing happened to me. I was a beginning marketer at the time and had no cash flow or any backup. PayPal literally put me out of business. Just ask Todd about it. He was one of my affiliates. I was so stoked as the $$ came rolling in. Then I go the email from PayPal. I felt my heart sink and they held 60,000.00 for 6 months. I had affiliates mad at me and I was literally out of business. Folks when you see the words PayPal Run!!
They used the it looks like fraud phrase on me. So don’t think it’s just MLM.. it’s products too.
Think about it. If you can hold millions of dollars from your clients for 6 months and invest the money.. Isn’t that a business in itself? You get the point.
Derrick I’m sorry it happened to you.
Clickbank is awesome and people can pay with PayPal and there is no danger.
Good Luck to you.
Glen
One more thing guys and gals. You don’t have to have a PayPal account to buy from vendors that use PayPal. They now have a buy as guest. I use that now and can pay with any credit card I like. Just a FYI for all you friends.
Good point Glen. That works for one-time purchases. But not subscriptions.
@Todd Gross
Hey Todd. I am truly truly sorry this has happened to you and Derrick. You already know firsthand that this happened to me. They kept my money, prevented me from processing new orders, and sent out refunds to my customers without my consent. It took me a little over 260 days to get my money out and by that time, it was 90% gone. They literally ran me out of business.
I never thought this would or could happen to me because I called them and requested they review my site before the launch. they reviewed it and stated that everything looked good and was well withing their terms of service. THEY LIED! 3 Days later, my account was permanently shut down! Shortly after that, they stopped taking my calls and treated me as if I was a scammer. It has been very difficult to rebuild the honest, fair, positive reputation I once had in our industry and I owe that to PayPal.
I encourage everyone reading this to please find alternatives )Authorize.net. Clickbank, 2CO and AlertPay). PayPal is not going to bend and even in the off chance they do, believe me when I tell you that they WILL screw you over again.
Well said Lonnie.
@Ken
Well said Ken. I once talked with Ted Leonsis about this and I thought his company, “Revolution” would be a good PayPal rival, but he ended up selling that concept to American Express and I think they are talking that idea into a different direction. It would be nice to see the “Gurus” create a system for internet marketers, by internet marketers.
Derrick,
That’s rough, man. I know. Been there, too.
It seemed like the end of the world for a few weeks, but I survived. You will, too. Sounds like you’re already moving past it.
My affiliate program now exclusively uses AlertPay. Was worried that conversions would be lower without PayPal, but we never missed a beat. IMO AlertPay is the best alternative for PayPal in the affiliate marketing arena. Love it.
Thanks for getting the word out. Much of my income is as an affiliate rather than program owner, and most of that is still managed via PayPal. Not a comfortable position. Seems like just a matter of time before PayPal bans ALL affiliate marketing whether it is instant pay or not. It would not break my heart at all if PayPal banned ClickBank. The sooner we break free from PayPal the better.
That’s a smart plan to slowly move away from PayPal. It’s just a matter of time before the majority of marketers make the switch to AlertPay – especially for instant pay commissions.
There’s another side to this — I use paypal to pay my VAs also. What’s an option there? Xoom.com already kicked me off for “fraud”, luckily they never hold any money, so none was lost or “held”.
Anyone have alternatives to paypal to pay your VAs?
http://www.xoom.com
http://www.emoneygram.com
http://www.westernunion.com
http://www.moneybookers.com
http://www.alertpay.com
Hey Derrick,
Sorry to hear about your troubles with PayPal, but Thank you for this warning.
I am actually about to launch a new membership site and was planning to use PayPal, I am now going to rethink this decision.
Thanks for the heads up Derrick and have a good one!
Recurring billing is what hurts the most. If they freeze your account, all your subscriptions are automatically cancelled.
Hi Derrick/Todd,
Sorry about your imbroglio with Paypal. It’s no different with Google (My Adwords account was permanently suspended – after a period of long inactivity, citing past violations); Aweber (guidonussbaum dot com relates a horror story with them); eBay; and you can add to this long list. The bigger they get (from our spending), the more heartless and menacing they become and just don’t care.
It’s really time to show a big-fisted middle finger to PayPal and their likes and switch to better alternatives. Incidentally, I just have a product idea for you (I am not a programmer, though) – Why not develop an AlertPay equivalent of 7Dollar Script/RAP?! I remember you had included some script with your free List Building System but with PayPal links. Time to change for good and I would love to see AlertPay buy buttons next time on your site…:), as Micheal Savoie rightly pointed out above. Hope your situation remedies soon and you find respite. Best wishes and god bless.
I’m already working on it Vasant.
I’ve been a loyal follower and purchaser of many of Derricks and Tods products and all I can say is WOW! I feel for you! I bought BOTH products mentioned through the links first mentioned and can’t say enough good about them. Derrick in particular is an AWESOME programmer and his products are one of the FEW products that have actually made me some money! Some of us are very small potatoes and can’t afford a full-blown merchant account even on authorize.net . I already have an alertpay account for purchases but not for merchant. I may have to look into that! Thanks so very much for letting us know and PLEASE KEEP US INFORMED with how things progress!
Thanks Brad. Hey, if you get your product approved at AlertPay, you can accept credit cards as the primary payment option.
I am 100% on your Side Derrick Paypal Destroys Businesses once they get big!
This is terrible news. No other online service is close to the reputation or ease of use.
Maybe google checkout?
AlertPay.com is just as easy to use. But they don’t have the reputation that PayPal has.
I made a post on the WF on how to get your PayPal back. It happened to me too and within 48 hours, I had an appology email.
It was made several years ago but might be worth your time looking for it.
Ive never had a problem with paypal
I love it
Cheers for the heads-up Derrick, fortunately I have not had any problems with Paypal as of yet, but definitely am considering alertPay now after hearing of your troubles. Appreciate the info you provided.
All the best, Dale.
Part of it is also bogus. You think they can’t afford to hire lawyers that know whether or not they can hold your money, lol?
It is a joyous world isn’t it when legitimate businesses can get their processing accounts closed down. Happened to me and a fairly stressful 2 week wait to get the account reinstated and I now have a rolling reserve.
I too had heard about this happening to others and like others had also thought it couldn’t happen to me.
The fact is if you are being succesful selling any kind of digital products on paypal they will almost certainly close you down or cause you other similar problems.
Indeed I spoke to Paypal the day before my account was limited and was told there was no problem with my account or the way it was being run. The next morning I woke up and it led to a very stressful two weeks.
It is a pain in the ass. Looks like alert pay is the way to go or just get a credit card processing facility.
Thanks for the update. I found another one here (don’t know how much of it will help, though): http://business.feedfury.com/content/31094884-paypal-hack-yes-get-money-off-pending-status-immediately.html
Hi Derrick,
Thanks for the information, and I appreciate all the comments from friends and partners. Certainly something not to be misinformed about.
Hope the work with Alertpay and RAP interface will get done soon (thanks to Micheal Savoie’s suggestion), as well as the other payment processors that are mentioned will be good alternatives.
Sad to see Paypal turning as they have. Having eBay and Paypal become too big and think they are monopolies policing such small time work is nonsense. So much for free enterprise.
Those hawking the garbage products are already being weeded out, and only good products like Optinapp are going to stand out from the crowd. I bought it, and it is amazing!
Hi, Derrick,
unfortunatelly I know only PayPal and AlertPay.
Thanks for your information.
You are too late to know this……………My Friend.
We all should join together and do something on this.
Gani.
I want to thank everyone for stepping up to the plate and sharing your stories. Justin, Joe, and Jerome, for example off the Warrior Forum, and Glen and Lonnie who actually helped me avoid keeping money inside Paypal by warning me what had happened to them years ago. I almost always had a contigency plan thanks to them.
Taking IN too much money too quickly seems to be one of the “flags” for review… even if you warn them. It is a different department that does the “reviews”. Then if you get a bad apple review-person, your account is either sent to a rolling reserve (preferable) or totally limited (that 180++ day shut down thing).
What I’m getting at, is the system gets tripped by the amount of money you are taking in I believe, more than the occurrence of you withdrawing most of it. You are risking losing it if you leave it in. I never kept more than 1K in my paypal for this very reason, and was not bothered for years on end. It wasn’t until the surge of sales from Optin App, that it simply came in too quickly.
..But, OTOH, on one of my accounts, they forgot to shut down the money coming in (which is nice).. so as that builds up, (if the gate stays open).. all that money is stuck inside paypal as it comes in, and will amount to a few thousands in residuals that I can’t touch. As I told the guy on the phone (David…)
“People paid ME for the product, not Paypal, what right do you have to keep it?”. “For our protection” was his answer. Protection? Ya, refund policy is 2 months, why do they need 180 days? I think you buys are right about the interest they can make in 6 to 12 months off our frozen money.
Unfortunately on my other account….. well that one is completely shut down from taking in and taking out money, as are Derrick’s accounts. That has cancelled our
residual programs completely. While this may mean a few thousand lost on my end, Derrick is being hit with tens of thousands of dollars lost, maybe even 6 figures! After offering solid products, and being a key promoter of Paypal for years on end, you can understand the frustration. I really would like to encourage you Derrick to complete that Alert Pay affiliate system. Since Alert Pay also takes Master Card/ Visa, it won’t hurt conversions too badly, especially if we get the word out to folks about Paypal’s banning of Affiliate Marketing as we know it. (It’s too “Risky” for them)
Again, if we educate our buyers, and friends that this is going on, and it is REAL, then it will help when something like an Alert Pay affiliate system is established, and can be applied to Surefire Profit System (Derrick’s) , Digiresults, Rapid Action Profits, Warrior Plus, Rapbank, etc. which all currently uses primarily Paypal (Surefire also does authorize.net right now, the merchant account, but not AlertPay yet, which is very similar to Paypal)
Hope this info helps
Todd
I am really disgusted about all this. Paypal think they have us by the %”££@@?.
I think, we as a whole, should get together to see if we can create a suitable similar product as paypal. Maybe then they will reconsider, but then, it will be too late – for them!
Yes, it’s called AlertPay.com
Anything can be done.. With the right funds I could get the development done, heck with the money and a small team… I can do it all.. It’s all kindergarten really..
screw paypal. sob
Derrick,
Bring a law suit against them, I’m serious. You can get a cheap lawyer anywhere to file the suit for $400.00 to $500.00. It will cost them $10,000 to defend it. For the sake of the bottom line they will settle. Believe me on this, I have used this tactic in my oil company and it forces them to clean it up. Good Luck!
Jefferson
Hi wso, and IM. I knew about this madness years ago, that is why we have alternative like
Mike Filsaime PayDot.com
The only way to hurt a big company like Paypal is to spent their money via a class action suit. Believe me when I say Class Suit will make them think twice.
I considered that filing a law suit. But it wouldn’t cost more than $10K for them to fight it and that’s not enough to waste my time. If we could get 100 people to file suits all the at the same time, well, that would get some attention.
Hey Derrick,
Really sorry to hear of your troubles, I hope you can resolve them soon.
My business partner and I are in the process of setting up a new photographic/camera site and he told me that he had heard of Paypal closing marketers accounts a short while ago especially if they were dealing in large sums.
We have a Paypal set up on the site but only for smaller amounts.
After reading your blog we will most likely take it off and use Alert Pay instead.
Thanks for the warning and best of luck with getting it sorted soon.
John Patterson
Sorry to see you guys get f’d with … yes an alertpay instant commissions script would be the bomb!
I posted my story late last night after being banned for life yesterday and the scumbags had the nerve to send me a customer service satisfaction survey today. AAAARRRRRGHHHH I see a class action lawsuit in the making.
I had a similar experience with Paypal, however with a favorable result…
Some one had reported a transaction from my site as violating the “Business Plan” provision in their terms. However, as it turned out, was not even a transaction associated with my account, so it was solved in less than a few hours.
However, Jason from Paypal spent over an hour with me on the phone as we went through my site together, and “schooled me” on what causes red flags at Paypal and what can be interpreted as violating the Paypal policies, so I now have a great understanding and knowledge of what can cause issues and what will likely not.
Unfortunately Derrick, in your case, the FanPageTrafficSystem.com site of yours is probably the root of your problems. One thing I did find out, is once you have ONE site that violates the policy, it’s game over for your account in total, so arguing content of your other sites won’t help. In your case, the heading as it reads about making $100 a day implies to the user that they can do this by buying your product and thus falls under the “business plan” provision. Had you worded it something like “that I made $100 a day with” or something along those lines, you would have been fine. And as you read on you just have more “red flags” such as “We’ll Give You the Software and Training You Need to Make a $100 a Day on Facebook!” Again, if you had said something to the effect of “the same software and know how WE used to make $100 a day…you probably would have been fine.
Then to end it all off, you called it a “membership”, another red flag after having the “Make $100 a day”. It being a lifetime membership, you probably should have simply sold it as a product with lifetime updates.
Now I read the one of the previous comments where apparently Paypal discussed how they were going to look into Warrior Forum etc…..and frankly I have a hard time believing Paypal would discuss matters that concerned someone elses account or status with a party not directly authorized to discuss it. I am a member of the WF and Warrior Plus, but we all know that there are PLENTY of products in there that imply or claim directly that a user can make $xxx by using this product or that……….so I CAN believe that many of the products in the Warrior Forum could be soon scrutinized and if it’s a WSO using Warrior Plus system it COULD have an effect on the WF guys.
However, it should be noted, that in my discussion with Paypal I was informed that most actions are as a result of a report by a buyer or third party and for the most part, Paypal is not out there scouring the net looking for accounts to freeze. Why would they want to execute a movement to reduce their receivables thus their profits? So, what I was told makes sense.
Thanks for the info John. I know why PayPal froze my account. The question is, why do they allow ClickBank to sell products that make outrageous claims, use fake screen shots, and blatantly lie. Need I say more?
And the Optin App made no claims about making money. It was sold only through WarriorPlus and through Todd’s account. So it wasn’t tied to my PayPal account in any way. So, why the hell did they say the Optin App was MLM?
My point is, nobody is safe and it’s just going to get worse. I predict that Mike Lantz will be forced to switch to AlertPay. So he may as well integrate now.
I think the Patriot Act is getting between us and them. They are required to fill out IRS form 8300 for cash payments over 10k. Once that form is triggered they will investigate the orgin of the funds. Report them to the IRS on form 3949a, and they will be investigated.
Derrick,
What would be your claim on the lawsuit? Start racking up the interest payments due to you with principal and bill them. Give them a chance to pay and file your lien. I do this for people on debt collectors all the time.
I just want my money back. PayPal doesn’t give refunds past 60 days. So why are they holding my money for 6 months. They could be charge backs. But not $6,000 worth.
Wow.. The saga continues.. not good . I like Gary’s advice.. I don’t see how you could loose if your attorney is willing to do the legwork. It is really the point here and you would be the voice for many honest working people I am sure. Too bad these companies think they can just do what they please I’d set someone strait literally. I could use a grand rt now never mind 6.. Ohh they would not want to make the mistake of crossing me. I better just steer clear of Paypal. Keep the energy positive…
Thanks for this useful post, Derrick! But disgusting on the part of PP – they’re laughing all the way to the bank with the interest they’re earning on frozen money for months and months. Would be great to get them to legally cough up, that as well as all the other gross business losses suffered by so many people. Surely there must be legal recourse, maybe start a joint case against them by all who lost money through them. Best wishes
Forget the class action, the only ones that win in those suits are the attorneys. You have to have a claim before you can bring a suit or they will dismiss it fast.
I agree. We all agreed to their terms of service when we signed up. And those terms say they can keep our money for any reason.
Hola!
Bueno escribo en mi idioma porque traducir lo que pienso no es tan fácil, lamento tu situación es algo que uno no entiende los comportamientos de algunas empresas, si hoy en día la venta de sistemas o programas es enorme, en realidad que es lo que buscan estas compañias?
Ahora bien, es de comentar en Colombia el sistema Paypal, no permite obtener pagos que se puedan hacer através de internet porque sólo podemos realizar pagos y eso que con tarjetas de crédito no es posible abrir cuenta alguna, de verdad que esta conducta me llama mucho la atención, y te podria recomendar Neteller, me parece un buen sistema tengo una cuenta con ellos, de manejo fácil le ofrece a las personas obtener una tarjeta para manejar su dinero y su mercado es creciente y llega al segmento de las personas muy activas. Permite inscripciones con tarjetas crédito y débito que creo que este segmento el débito está menospreciado pero estudialo y sé que vas a encontrar una gran oportunidad.
De nuevo lamento tu situación pero si hay algo de admirar de los grandes empresarios es que de cada caída salen fortalecidos y con ganar de armar un proyecto más grande que el anterior así que mucha suerte y buenas tardes!
Translation for Clerancye:
Well write in my language because I think translation is not so easy, I’m sorry your situation is something you do not understand the behavior of some companies, if today the sale of systems or programs is enormous, in fact that is what they want these companies?
However, Colombia is to comment on the Paypal system, does not allow for payments can be made through the internet because we can only make payments and that that credit cards can not open any account, that this behavior actually called me a lot attention, and I could recommend Neteller, a good system I think I have an account with them, easy operation offers people get a card to manage their money and their market is growing and reaches the segment of the very active. Registration allows credit and debit cards that I think this segment is underrated but the debit program, study and know that you are getting a great opportunity.
Again I am sorry your situation but if there is something to admire the great entrepreneurs is that each fall are fortified and build winning a larger project than the previous so much luck and good afternoon!
Here’s another update on PayPal “style/mood” a report by well known Internet Marketer Mike Filsaime to be found at: http://www.salihuibrahim.com/free-quality-reports/ThePayPalReport.pdf – corroborates what Todd said above.
Thanks Steve, that’s really good information!
Derrick this really sucks … Now I guess this is where I am lost I have checked out paypal BBB and it is A+.
Now how can this be, I think a solution would be to first start to take them to court if you are in the U.S and let the courts decide if what they are doing is fair.
They are a U.S base company and they would not like the bad press. Oh another thing press… We are all internet marketers, how about writing press releases about what they doing believe me I don’t think they would like the bad press.
It just seems as if they don’t have the legal rights to withhold funds…. they continue to do it because no one really attempt to fight them
Believe me start sending 10 demand letter, and follow up with a summons and complaint they will know you mean business.
I have had many big companies try to push me around but when you start writing demand letter they start listening … phone calls do not work…remember the saying the pen is mightier than the sword.
Take them to court… You have nothing to lose as they have already robbed you.
Wishing you the best…
I had my paypal locked and frozen back in 2002 and again in 2008 for being a “high risk”
Now recently Paypal has updated their TOS and amended the part where, now, they do not even have to tell you why they froze your account.
CB abd 2CO both take Paypal so all of you learn from this and do not rely on one payment gateway, especially Paypal.
I knew PayPal sucked from hearing the horror stories for a while and sorry to hear to its reached you aswell Derrick.
Isn’t it funny what a massive response a anti PayPal article has…goes to show how crap they truly are. Paypay = Monkeys by the looks of it.
Hey Derrick are you planing to intergrate Alert Pay into SPS?
Yes, I will have AlertPay integrated ASAP.
Sorry to hear about this development and I do not understand why this behaviour when the clients of paypal with larger accounts suppose to pay more money to them
I thought of the possibility for internal fraud or any hackers attack your accounts
when i say internal fraud i mean few employees of paypal with certain position may do commit this at the expense of paypal and the top management do not know anything about it.
You need to get a lawyer to reach their lawyer or try to reach the top management.
do mot talk with middle management or lower officer as they may do not want to be responsive and trutfull. hackers may attack certain number of their accounts and created lossess they try to offset from those large accounts? Something is going wrong with their management .
Derrick,
Sorry to hear about this royal pain in the ass with PayPal but it hardly surprises me considering they are owned by Ebay who has morals definitely lower than any street hooker. Not sure what Earl’s comment meant but lawyers are not exactly the solution here when a thief takes your money and holds it ransom for many months. Now this can hardly be justified as any refunds cannot go on for months that is total BS. Everyone knows it and they most assuredly do but that is part of the plan and what good does a lawyer do if they have succeeded in destroying your business in the process.
I had experience with Ebay who tried to deny my claim when I was trying to buy a car from a con that had misstated the true condition of such and their denial was based on the fact that I was not a Gringo. My what a clever reason to let one of the members screw over another because of my address. Incredible. What the experience tells you is what are the real morals of the company.
Derrick you are wrong on only one small matter you state Amazon and such companies support PP but they don’t you cannot use PP at Amazon who in all my dealings is a far cry improvement over Ebay/PayPal.
I was just in the process of setting up my first site to use PP but this info. to say the least is a slap in the face. I also concur with your comments about how PP will support Clickbank which is yet another sad example of sleeze at its finest. There moto is “we let any scam artist sell any piece of crap they want just as long as we get our cut.” The double speak comparing your and CB Refund rates is glaringly obviously as can yo imagine what some of CB’s are with all the crap that is coming down that pike these days they must have HUGE REFUNDS! Yet just try and get a continuity payment stopped with them it is a real battle and their system has ZERO capacity to get a refund and stop a payment commitment at the same time. You have to fight them every inch hence the clear message is we regularly screw customers out of what is due them and only hope that they are not smart enough to realize that they have not actually received their full refunds. I have had way too much experience in buying CB crap products but now I am a recovering purchaser and go to weekly meetings to cure me of that addiction.
My point of this long message is that PP wants to attack little guys the most of who like yourself actually produce products that work and are not crap yet they do nothing with the horrors behind the BIG CB doors. It is a rather transparent agenda you can get away with anything as long as you grease the wheels with enough business. There is nothing here about really protecting the customer. Note not one of the warriors mentions any complaints from real customers that would have instigated such a outright attack.
What is worse is that the reasons given are such crap with no basis at all even a fool can see there has to be a real hidden agenda here that most certainly has nothing to do with morals or good business ethics.
Trevor
What an education this has been!!! I have purchased from just about everyone mentioned in these posts so I know the integrity of everyone … especially Todd & you, Derrick. Thanks to everyone for sharing experiences. These horror stories certainly make up my mind to stay away from PayPal processing. I, too, will be migrating my sites to AlertPay A.S.A.P.
P.S. I LOVE Gary Wallis’ suggestion!
Hello Derrick, thanks for the warning; About a 3 months was a certain affiliate program and we were two months without receiving the commissions due to that same attitude Paypal. Just like that froze the account of the company, the reasons were the same!
Derrick , we should open a thread into the WF and see if Mike Lantz will witch to AlertPay and what are his thoughts about his.
I will open my self the thread but since my eng isn’t so good, I don’t want to have people that will not understand my point.
What do you think?
Yes, I’ll start a thread and invite you all to post. Mike doesn’t have to “Switch” to AlertPay. But he should add AlertPay as an option.
You guys need to learn more about the Lamborghini’s creation!!!
It’s a customer service dis-satisfaction story! The truth is, Mr. Lamborghini was a Ferrari customer. His clutch broke and he put the new Ferrari in the shop…for the third time in a month. While there, he happened to see Mr. Ferrari and told him he needed to take a personal look into why the clutch kept breaking. Mr Ferrari’s response? “There’s nothing wrong with that clutch, you just don’t know how to drive a Ferrari.”
Angered by that response, he went home (took his car with him, unfixed) and disassembled the car and figured out the problem. But the response angered him so much that he structured a different (some would say better) car and then went on to build an assembly line to build that car.
Point of my post?
Perhaps the best competition Paypal will get will come from dissatisfied customers such as yourselves, and perhaps that better competition will force Paypal to re-examine their system. Or not. But at that point, the alternative processor having already been built, nobody will care about Paypal anymore because with the better process nobody will be using them any longer.
(OK. I can dream, can’t I?)
@jane smith
And I guess my main point to the post above is, don’t just think about affiliate marketing.
Think big. Think “capture ALL of Paypal’s revenue sources as a potential customer” when you design this replacement.
I had a similar issue when a legitimate company had their paypal closed down and a group of us emailed on their behalf. we all got our paypals closed down for spam.
The best thing that can come out of this is the negative pr that can be generated by those that have software to put it out there (senukex etc.)
The hardest part is everyone that relies on paypal, the more people that start using the alternatives the easier it will be to leave them in the dust.
@Gary Wallis
It would be best to get them caught up in a supreme court ruling on the validity of their business practices.
not that would be possible, but that type of legal fight is what you want, something that will hurt in public relations and trust.
A small claims for money held will not have the PR effect needed to really hurt them
@Derrick VanDyke
Hey Derrek,
For WSO product creators, this Paypal SLAP is a bit of a disaster (esp. for Mike Lantz’ WSO Pro). So then, what are our options?
If we use AlertPay who are the affiliate programs that are integrated with them that we can use? AlertPay.com + Which Affiliate Program?
Kieran
I’m working on an affiliate program script that integrates with AlertPay.
We make good money as Internet Marketers s why should we let the likes of PayPal mess us like that.
I propose that we form a partnership inviting all interested Internet Marketers to join, and we form our own payment organization to compete with PayPal and other similar organizations.
How many buy this idea?
@Derrick VanDyke
Good good, well yes adding AlertPay as an option I think is a way to go.
Thanks …you got your back
I never use paypal because it doesn’t works for some countries, but alertpay its works and it’s the best. Thanks Derrick
@Joe
Try a check – and before you get excited I’m talking a bank check.
Use the online bill pay function of your bank account.
1. the checks are generated by the bank and funds are withdrawn from your account immediately (recipient doesn’t have to worry about possible NSF check)
2. the bank sends the check for you free – so no postal fees
3. the recipient isn’t charged a fee for accepting the money and you aren’t charged a fee for sending it.
As for PayPal – I’ve always been nervous using them. I sell a mix of virtual and physical products. I have a merchant account and process 80% of my business through that but I still use PayPal for a lot of other things.
I use Quickbooks and use one of their online payment services for some of my clients with contract work. Similar to invoicing through PayPal but done through Quickbooks.
Course if your VA’s are overseas that makes paying them more complicated.
Western Union and those types…
I have dealt with PayPal for just about when they started up. I’ve had a couple small glitches along the way. I’ve had exactly one chargeback, but that was precipitated by a trusted buyer’s wife, who, when they divorced, charged book purchases back because he used HER credit card. That was nasty; chargebacks are not fun. Overall, PP’s customer service has been effective.
BUT, the problems continue for others, and it looks like things are boiling with PayPal again, and Derrick and Todd here… I am hearing awful stories. It has given me one more time, pause to reflect on how to deal with this. I’ve looked into changing over to something else, more than once, and usually in response to situations like that going on now… or visiting Paypal Sucks page, which I do have bookmarked. After all, this is my business account, and one SHOULD keep an eye on that, just like you do with your bank. Speaking of which, since PP and our bank account are interwoven, everyone should make at least a weekly visit to both, just to make sure things are fine, find, fine.
I would like to see suggestions here in this thread, for what others are doing. Authorize.net and a merchant bank are NOT always the answer. In fact, I started out that way in early 2000s… only to have the Calif. bank be a true fraud. With stern threats, they actually returned many months of their fee to me. It was at that point I went solidly PayPal. So in effect, my horror story was the merchant bank/Authorize.net that was the bummer. I must point out though that Authorize.net was a pleasure to work with, and I loved their system… so the trick is finding a trustworthy bank.
It is always something! It is MHO that online business is much tougher than local/freelance business. I have been online business-wise since 1994! And offline/local since 1980 or so, but also working with my Dad’s very successful offline print publishing house since he began in the late 70s. I am very adapted to offline work, and love it. And I repeat… it is much easier on a daily basis than online, where things change every second, and keeping up with it all is impossible…. and it’s only going to get more tough, as the Net grows intensely every day.
I am SO glad you have started this thread! And I feel horrible for all of you who’ve gone through the PayPal dumping ground!
Like “Ace” just before me just said… I SOOOO agree:
“The hardest part is everyone that relies on paypal, the more people that start using the alternatives the easier it will be to leave them in the dust.”
Leanne
Derrick, I have not been victimized by these idiots yet, but I do remember a January BlogTalkRadio show by the legendary Vegas Vince regarding the crooked sh*t PayPal is up to.
Hope you can put this hyperlink live in my post. Here goes:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/vegasvince/2011/01/04/paypal-is-a-scam
The show is around an hour, but trust me, if you are familiar with Vegas Vince, it is well worth listening to.
@Darren Scott Monroe My experience is with clickbank, I:ve had a few cusrtomers tell me they’ve been double charged by clickbank, I argued with them until ckickbank did the same to me, I won’t be using clickbank again, let me tell you!
Lee
Thank you for sharing your misfortune with the rest of us. I’m just starting out and don’t want to have any funds I will earn that are much needed to be stolen by any online processor.
@Derrick VanDyke
Any indications as to how far away time-wise your Affiliate program that integrates with AlertPay will be Derrick?
Derrick, sorry to hear of your problems. I’ve had my run in with paypal a few years ago while selling on ebay. Froze my account, sided with the buyer, basically said I was the bad guy. The entire matter took many months of my time and effort plus a attorney to prove the buyer was a fraud, not me. Since that time have not kept any money in paypal worth anything. Maybe fifty dollars, spend it quickly and move on.
AlertPay has been very helpful when I have had to contact them. Their customer service knocks paypal in the dirt. They are the best decision any marketer can make.
The best advise I can offer is contact your attorney, paypal has so many complaints plus law suits, they hate the daily attorney calls. Hope it turns around for you. If you need help check out paypalsucks dot com
@Kieran
I’m shooting for next weekend.
Derrick – you’ll be a hero for many Internet Marketers!
Hi, Derrick. I am sorry to hear about you frozen accounts, but I am very thankful for your warning.
I had my bad experience with PP a few month ago. I do not use it any more.
Hey Derrick,
Im currently planning for a possible new platform that accepts Alertpay and has at least the same features W+ has and then some more.
I see you are coming out with the solution on next weekend?
Would like to contact you privately about this and see how we can help each other out
You have my email now, I think..
Let me know
Fuad
I am glad I am on your list, I look forward to it and will support it.
Thanks for this post. A much needed ‘heads-up’ (again). I was aware of the problem and potential threat but kinda fell asleep again, thinking “Oh, it won’t happen to me”…
What about a MAJOR wake-up call for PayPal? So many companies are also fast asleep when it comes to their online reputation. The Internet has become a MAJOR force that can make or break not only companies but even presidents. Remember – Obama won the election with the help of the Internet and Facebook users even started a REVOLUTION all across the north African and middle east countries!!!!
We are Internet Marketers. We can easily do the same. We not only have Facebook, YouTube, blogs, RSS feeds, all the bookmarking sites and so so much more tools in our arsenal. It would only take a DOZEN of dedicated marketers, who write and submit a press release EVERY DAY and blast it all over the Internet and sooner or later the Internet will be BUZZING with BAD PRESS (which I’m sure will go viral!)
WE ARE THE PEOPLE – WE HAVE THE POWER! Never forget that (this is a German speaking, so I KNOW what I’m talking about. We also brought down the wall!) Little fish – yes, maybe. But fish that can BITE. Piranhas are not very impressive at fist sight. But good luck if they are all around you. PayPal you wanna destroy our business? See if we can turn this around…
I think this is an option that has much more potential than a law suit. And with AlertPay being almost a PayPal clone we just have to win the programmers over to making a little adjustment. (Wink wink)
By the way… Just checked out 2Checkouts policy about prohibited products. Folks, let me warn ya – this is NOT an option if you sell leads, memberships, direct marketing subscriptions or infomercial products, if you offer upsells, contests, sweepstakes or discounts or if you use postcard, mail or telemarketing. And from what I understand it should also not be used by/for affiliates. 2Checkout has completely disqualified itself in my eyes. But see for yourself: http://www.2checkout.com/documentation/prohibited.html
Hi Derrick…thanks for the heads up…I’m just starting out and PayPal
seemed to be the way to go. I have my own ebook for sale and was just
now setting up my PP button when I saw your email. Will now look at
AlertPay.
I also just joined uQast dot com. Is that going to be something we can work with?
Does anybody else have experience with that. It’s quite new I believe.
Thanks for the info here… God Bless
Thank you for the heads-up. Reminds me of what StormPay did a few years ago. Basically, they stole people’s money. There have been a few other payment processors that have come and gone, and at least one of them used the user information to extract money from bank accounts some time after they had stopped operating as a payment processor. It’s why I have been hesitant to work with anything but PayPal until now.
One thing to think about; as the global economy is in shambles, all institutes related to credit and money are not in a hurry to fix the economy but are scrambling for ways to hold onto their own assets.
Has anyone had bad experience with google checkout?
@Danielle Parsons
Danielle, that is right, however, unfortunate that we must have to learn this way.
These guys are great honest marketers! But yes get yourself set up with alertpay.
success,
Ken Pringle
Derrick I got same problem issued. Paypal held my account of $4,000 and said is negative balance as all my products were sold by digital download and they still not accept my comments and said to add fund to take money from me. Now, my us bank gotten closed as I lost my hard money with this Paypal and I don’t want to see them anymore.. I will try another merchant account like clickbanks or alertpay. Paypal put me out of business as I can recover my sales money as this Paypal is taking all my transaction money and don’t know what to do. All I can think is to begin from the bottom again and didn’t know that Paypal got many other affiliates money too. Please, stay away from them and close any bank account that associate with them. I can’t believe that Paypal is not registered in Federal state regulations to do business….then I was scammed by them.
Derrick I am so sorry to read this, paypal makes billion of dollars by freezing account making free money and I don’t think the’re going to stop. I really wish they end up like eGold and ePassporte. I’ve never seen wickedness like this. please continue with direct pay profit program and use alertpay.
Whats up with this! You have always been upfront when you have been marketing, if it is a physical product or a digital as long as you are delivering what you promise, who cares. PayPal has in there structure if you don’t like it you don’t pay. If your selling crap, yes you deserve to be cut off. But anybody selling and really caring, what are you supposed to do. Back in the early 2000′s PayPal wasn’t anything special. They were an option. Evidently they have gotten to big, like some banks, and have forgotten, its us little guys who have made them their millions. Oh well, if it happens to enough of us, we will do the right thing and find somebody with integrity and knows it is what the Democratic system was setup on. Which will be all marketers gain. Sorry about what happened to you. Jim Noble
@Derrick VanDyke Many times one can find a lawyer that will take a class suit for free just with a hope of a big payoff at the end. Almost any lawyer would take on a class that had 100 to optins to start with. Just in this post alone I saw many that felt paypal took advantage of them.
so thats why i,m not getting paid 4 my sales well they better get there act together as they are dealing with a lot of peoples money. and its a criminal offence to with hold money that belongs to others. is clickbank doing the same. discriminating on who get paid and who doesn,t the truth will always surface and what they cover up will come back at them its very diheartning to think or know this kind of things going on in the bussiness sector. exspecially wnet the enternet is becoming the only way for people to connect with others.makes you feel like throwing the pc away and go back to the old ways of doing things
@Kiya
Wow, thanks for that info Kiya.
WOW People Need to Take This Seriously just recently our company Club Asteria had their Account Frozen and they didn’t do anything wrong. PayPal Said it was frozen because they received Fraudulent Activity from people in Third World Countries.
Please Everybody Be Careful make sure you find a Payment Processor you can Trust… I myself will continue to use Alertpay as much as I can for all my Marketing Needs!
Hello Guys,
Where do I even begin here? I could write a small book pertaining to this matter, concerning not only the things already mentioned, but the larger picture as well. First off I will say I am very sorry for you guys, and your Families,as I am sure many more are affected by this blatant abuse of authority, and lack of human decency, than most realize. I have personally purchased several products from every single person mentioned in this post, who had their accounts froze. Maybe it is my fault?
Sorry, had to find some sort of humor as these circumstances seriously make my blood boil. Even when I am not the one directly affected (yet). Although I have been, on a smaller scale but with similar situations.
On top of the fact I respect and admire you guys for putting in the work, (I would tend to believe, ethically, and honestly), to do well for yourselves. My guess is it was not always this way. So one of the primary questions for me is who exactly is it in their corporation, that has some sort of sad vendetta, against marketers who have busted their hump, and start seeing some of the results they worked to achieve?
I Say we, the marketing community need to unite, and put an end to this BS. I know if you look at the sum of all the industry, there is, I think no doubt we could both morally, and rightfully, cause them at the very least a little bit of grief, as Lord knows they do not think twice about doing it to us 100% unjustified. I mean if it is supposedly because they do not like home businesses, what is next? They seize your account because they do not like the vehicle you drive? Perhaps someone there could not like gas hogs. I mean, what place is it of theirs to determine how, and why we transfer funds. Yes I guess we did sign their stinking agreement, which leaves all of us vulnerable to their corruption.
I for one, say it is time we all find some one else’s agreement to sign. One that is based in
decency and common sense. I know 2 checkout has been mentioned,and I recently opened an account with them as some of the aff programs I deal with use them. Maybe a good will come of the bad, and one of the other processors will step up in a big way, and do thing right for all involved. Sorry about the rant, but I feel for you guys, and wrong is wrong.
You both will surely push through it, and I wish you the best and God Bless,
Bruce
@Derrick and anyone else… I’m game for a lawsuit.
My nickname is 007 because I obliterate offline/online competition, take over markets, and Rambo my way through rankings and SERPS, Bazooka Videos and all that jazz.
I’m ticked and I’m in if anyone wants to go go on the war path!
We can file lawsuit
we can post 100s of videos
we can blast 100s of PR
we can shake it on FB
we can machine gun on Twitter
We are top notch marketers and we are experts at delivering info!
This can be fun!!
LOL
They stalled my momentum
They stung my ego
They slapped my business
They ticked me off
Derrick, there’s no doubt that there’s been a lot of crap sold and/or promoted on the internet over the years. I started internet marketing in 2007 and purchased a bunch of it myself, not knowing any better. I almost gave up and chose another profession because of it! Then in 2008, I purchased your Affiliate Cash Secrets (monthly membership) and everything changed for me. You put all of the missing pieces together for me, and because of you, I am now very successful. The quality of your teaching was hands down better and less expensive than everything else out there. This really upsets me since I give you most of the credit for my success. You changed my life for the better and I thank you for that. For Paypal to look at the entire internet marketing community as one is just plain wrong. I don’t see how they can get away with this. I guess they can’t figure out who provides quality training and software like you do versus the people who take advantage of other people promoting crap. I’m really sorry to hear about this and I hope Paypal loses billions of dollars for their ignorance. Thank you for sharing this and all the best for you.
2Checkout accepts PayPal….
Hey I’m glad to learn about Alertpay, I’ve been passively keeping an eye out for something to help me get away from Paypal and that looks like the clear option at the moment.
the only reason they hold you money, is because the put it in a bank account overseas and make MAD interest money off it, then by the time they finally release it back to you they have made a small fortune.
Someone needs to do this sooner or later.
Someone involved in internet marketing or MLM would surely be best.
Find a good attorney and sue PayPal!
@Micah Wallace
2Checkout accepts PayPal…
Clickbank accepts PayPal…
“Let that be a warning to all”!!!
Rodney Treece
@Jerome You rock buddy! get er done..
I got screwed by payapl on the other side. They encouraged me to put in a dispute after I got ripped off by a fellow Warrior for $360. This prick wouldn’t return my emails and did nothing for the $360.
So I disputed it and the first contact is basically writing to him through paypal hoping when they see it was from paypal they will be motivated to sort it out. So i just told him that i want my money back and her has done nothing and basically went off at him.
He responded to it with in 4 hours by simply stating “all work in relation to this purchase has been completed”
That was it. I was getting ready to provide the mountain of evidence i had showing this was total B.S. (the most obvious being it was 3 months of SEO anbd we were only 6 weeks into that 3 months so how the **** could it be completed).
I then received a series of emails from paypal, the first saying that they couldn’t do anything, the second that they had reviewed the case and found in my favour but there was no money in the account to compensate me and then i logged on to see that the case had been reviewed and coz it was not a tangible good they can’t do anything and that they have closed the dispute and that they will make a note of it but his account will remain open.
This all in less than 24 hours after lodging the dispute! I tried repeatedly to speak with paypal and they just sent the same cookie cutter email over and over….I have never been so full of rage! They screwed me over so badly and then wouldn’t even talk to me about it. The thing was there were tangible parts to the purchase but they wouldn’t listen one bit.
So how does this criminal keep his account with just a note saying that he has had a dispute against him that couldn’t be proved yet all you guys who offer excellent products, money back guarantees, full support services and incredible value for the marketplace get shut down? It is insane!!!!!
@Kiya
First off, as far as Obama, I hope the internet and Facebook will correct this mistake in 2012. Sorry Obama Fans, but I had to get that in.
I agree with you Kiya but I think we need to take this one step further. All marketers need to immediately stop offering PayPal as a payment option on their sites and all buyers need to ask for a different payment option (Alertpay is good for Now) other than PayPal or don’t make the purchase. We all need to boycott the big company’s that only offer PayPal as their payment option “that hearts”. If you have an account with PayPal regardless if you’re using it to sell a product or buy a product your account is in danger, believe I know because my account was frozen because I purchased a product that was against their TOS.
Bottom line is PayPal is the Biggest Scam on the internet and they need to be stopped NOW!
“Less getter done”!
Hi Derrick, what a bummer from Paypal. In all honesty the occasions I had to dispute a charge to my bank through Paypal was on one occasion because I had already negotiated with the vendor hosting company support about the uselessness of the charge in which they agreed..in actual fact I was also refunded (from host) the previous years charge as well). Can I say which hosting company..(rhetoric question) Go Daddy. In any case Paypal has never resolved anything on my behalf I did it through direct contact with the internet marketer.. I am also very happy to report that in 97% of cases..the vendor billing support has been second to none…totally transparent, speedy and reliable support responses. In support for WSO this forum saves marketers money by being a member…before signing up with Warrior Forum anyone starting out is only getting one-tenth of the quality out there and paying extra. I signed up with Alert Pay 2 years ago..so must go back there and see how I am with them. I would like to hear more about your Alert Pay idea. Thanks for the news on Paypal..I had a feeling something was going on lately..now it is time to act.
That sucks man I knew this was coming soon. I’m wondering if the FTC has got so many people running scared that they won’t even touch the make money niche anymore. Really makes ya wonder.
I’ve transferred all of my funds out of my Paypal account and will be using my Merchant account for payment processing for now on.
Good luck on recovering your money!
Dan Brock
@Derrick VanDyke
Is Virtapay.com reliable. I have seen content stating they are scammers so not to connect with them. Please address.
There is a new shopping cart out there that is suppose to be great @ CartFreak.com.
You may want to check this out.
Ha Derrick
I’m a Virtapay Member and I think they are going to be one of the better merchant service when they get everything going. You might want to signup free and check it out for yourself. I don’t think they are quiet ready yet for large transactions, still testing the waters.
how to change my account on paypal to alertpay?
Derrick,
Paypal can really kiss my a.. Its a great thing that you are making all of us aware of their “Orwelian” attitude before we grow our businesses. If we all stand together we can’t be defeated by paypal.
Regards
Stephen Stryydom
This happened to me 2, the wordt thing is that i got bankrupped cause of this.
And i dobt have thr finances to start over.
Paypall should be banned!
Hi Derrick,
I am really sorry to hear this, especially since I bougt your software, and found it Top quality. It’s very hard for me to understand that Paypal allow crap products from clickbank!
I hope that this arrogance will backfire for Paypal and I’ll certainly NOT use them, untill this issue is gone for good – they are certainly not gonna have my hard earned money in their account for 6 months. Just think of how much they make in bank rate by holding our money…!!!
Thanks for a very informative article.
Cheers
Tina
Appreciation for this inrfomtaoin is over 9000?thank you!
A very interesting post and a worrying time for us Internet Marketers. It would be nice if you could put up a small survey/vote of alternative payment outlets and get all us Marketers to vote from their experience, which would be the best suited/trusted alternative.
I have always used Paypal and would be at a loss to know who I could switch to. I have heard bad stories many year ago on AlertPay and Western Union, but this was only rumour.
Certainly here in the UK Western Union has a bad reputation for scams.
Will watch this post with anticipation.
Thanks for the heads up.
Yep, sounds about right. Some guys set about an idea to create a payment gateway online years ago in order that they could make money from the internet, it became Paypal.
Now, apparently and according to them, other people aren’t allowed to make money from the internet – in a legitimate helpful way to other people, might I add.
Well I hope their stupidity and backwardness ends up drowning them and that goes for any other company who think they’re too big to fall.
Derrick,
I’m about to launch WSO very soon. This is really bad news to hear about. What would you suggest? Do not want to get caught with similar situation.
don’t be too successful
dont over deliver
don’t hit WSO of the day
if you do…
don’t take your money out for 6 months
lol
seriously thats basically the way PP wants you to do biz with them
LOAD your PP with $$$$$$$
LEAVE it in there
so thay can invest YOUR money
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Hello Derrick
This reminders me of “Stormpay” , years ago.
Cheers
David Jackson
ps I glad you are using Alertpay
I just tweeted the WARNING: Your PayPal Account is at Risk! to over 11000 at http://twitter.com/gbeaty .
Hi Derrick
I was recently scammed and went back to PayPal to see what could be done to recoup my loses and it was a buisness but paid to individual they said nothing could be done so I was out $199 and PayPal sent me an email asking me what I thought of there service and if I would use them as there prime merchant and I replied that they where the last on my list and am now using Alertpay as my primeary merchant and also keeping an eye on http://tcho.net/6d which is a new one in pre-launch which looks like it has a lot to offer.
@Derrick VanDyke
Yes Derrick, just let us know when you’ve created the special thread on this matter. Would love to follow and hear how we can move forward for better and secure payment alternatives.
I Knew this shit was coming I knew it…
We need to get Mike Lantz on board with alert pay, because without warriorplus.com our WSO’s won’t take off…there was no way http://TubeRanker.com would have had the success it had if it wasn’t your support Derrik and Todd through the warriorplus system.
We def need to get this out to mike lantz.
Yours For Prosperity,
Anthony Aires
Hi Derrick,
Sorry to hear about your troubles with PayPal, my heart goes out to both you and Todd.
It seems most all programmers code their shopping cart and membership site software to only include either PayPal and / or ClickBank which perpetuates the grip of these vultures on all of us marketers.
So at least something good will come out of this with the new software you are developing, giving all of us the option of some decent, trustworthy companies for a change.
Going on all the other post comments, it looks as though PP may have actually done you a huge favor because it looks like there will be a huge demand for your software once released,
And if priced right it might actually make PayPal take notice when they see every Internet marketer closing their account to go elsewhere (perhaps wishful thinking)
Hi there,
Wow. This is scary. I am going to change a few things now. Not that I am making that much money yet but I plan too. Also I just got through buying a e-book about making money at home and it went through PayPal.
Thanks so much for letting us know.
Sherion
Rodney Treece says…
@Kiya
First off, as far as Obama, I hope the internet and Facebook will correct this mistake in 2012. Sorry Obama Fans, but I had to get that in.
Amen brother! Also I was mistaken in my 1st post , it is click2sell that I recently signed up with, looks good, but if anyone here has much experience with them, or any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it. Keep up the good fight everyone,and have a great day!
@Glen Barnhardt
I had a clickbank for many years. For one reason and another there were no transactions (commissions) received in the past 90 days. They shut me down, no discussion or appeal allowed. All the videos I had up with my CB link are now not working, defaults to them and my work and time is gone down the drain. My advice….move on from Clickbank if something similar happens you are finished like me. I believe commission junction are the same with a 90 day rule. Work the affiliate urs cause if you don’t get commissions in 90 days you are gone!
@Gary Wallis
FYI. I believe the Supreme Court just handed down a ruling that prevents filing class action law suits any more. I think it is time to exercise what may be our last remaining freedom under the Constitution – our right to abolish any government that no longer serves us and form a new one.
Having not long gone into partnership with my dear friend Dev Hobbins This is scary stuff.
Paypal will allow us to run the account from the uk and the us jointly, but Alertpay wont
This Means Dev has to run the Alertpay account,As our company is US based. but I cannot help her.
Can anyone recommend a system that can be used by both of us? I am in the UK Dev in the USA I use several processors for my outlets in the uk, but are not available in the US.
I am sorry for your problems, this seems to be getting worse. I have already lost my google account and cannot find out why! I have lost a lot of revenue because of that!
@Greg
Thanks Greg!
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Hi Derrick, I don’t sell anything. I am a buyer (still) and PayPal limited my account due that they have the impression that somebody else but me tried to login on my account (this is very considered of them as nobody but me should have access to my account, right. After reading your warning I realized that this happened after I bought a couple of plugins through the WSO Forum.
Put together a class action lawsuit. Sounds like all youse banding together have enough money to scare them. Threaten to all do marketing campaigns about how paypal sucks or something. They’re just a business too; if they’re breaking the rules you can make them pay. & pay back all the losses they’ve caused.
Hi Derrick,
Sorry about your experience with PayPal. What right do they have to hold any money for any period of time it is not theirs to keep.
I am one of your paying customers, I purchased your optin app. As a customer I must have rights to. I bought from you and I used paypal to enable me to give YOU the money. Now if they are not going to give it you, surely I must be able to get my money back and send it to you using a different payment method. While the money is being held by Paypal, who’s money is it really, cause its certainly not theirs. Its either the buyer or the sellers.
Here’s a thought, what if what was purchased required continual support or it was for long term or life membership. How could a seller provide that sort of service and not get paid for it for months and months. Wander what Paypal would do if buyers starting requesting a refund. because the product or service was canceled by the seller due to non payment.
We are internet marketers, we know how to flood cyberspace with what ever message we want.
We might be only a small drop in the ocean in comparison to the likes of the big boys like Amazon, but collectively we have the loudest scream by far. By doing what we are already do well, articles, press releases, video, etc etc etc we could generate enough attention to make PayPal take notice. Current affairs type of programs love stories like this, exposing the ruthlessness of PayPal would make a great story. Oh how sweet would that be.
I believe a class action is the only way to go from here. The power of numbers.. Not only the sellers but the buyers to. Attack from all angles, expose their tactics to the general public, damage their reputation, create major havoc, promote their competitors, get’em where is hurts, sue them and empty their bank accounts into those who have suffered at the hands of paypal.
I am also going to look into http://www.paymate.com as a alternative.
Cheers
Hey boss,
I just can’t stand stuff like this bro, and its been happening way to much lately…
But you know, I honestly think the reason that stuff happened to you and your friends is because you guys brought in thousands of dollars in a very short amount of time. That probably set off the PayPal Red Flag and got ya frozen. Its still BS, but maybe the reason for it.
Plus there can’t be a vendetta against marketers, because if it was, how are guys like Jonathan Budd and Mike Dillard able to pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars every single month in MLM and Home Business niche?
There has to be another reason we’ve overlooked…
@Webmustang Jerome 007
I will help to spread the word to…I’ll have my stuff to submit any necessary content out there.
Count me in.
Ok, I’m experimenting with “2 Checkout”, as an alternative, which allows credit cards (including Diner’s club of all things?) and Paypal. However, I noticed the checkout process was more cumbersome than straight Paypal. Can folks look at this page and just “start” the checkout process and tell me if this would deter you from making a purchase:
http://adsensemiracles.com/says/fbshop
Then write to me here: toddwx@gmail.com with your thoughts? Thanks
Todd
Hi
I don’t suppose getting any complaints for a refund has anythng to do with it?
I have had refunds from Todd and Derrick without any problems but I have also come across some marketers who will give you a hard time if you ask for a refund
Then of course the requester ends up giving PayPal a hard time for not enforcing the warranty stated on the sales sites which they say is a digital product so there’s no security in the refund request; yet Clickbank issues the refund with no questions asked and therefore can be counted on to honor the guarantee stated on sales pages
Just wondering if this has any connection to PayPal hard lines!
Dan
Hi Derrick.
And to establish its own payment system.
Think about it…
Ready towork
Hello Derrick, Sorry for your troubles. I have 2 paypal accounts and I’m thinking that I should close them and use AlertPay. Take care.
Hey all,
I have a new reason to be scared.am one of the smallest fish in the sea with many times just a $0 balance. I already knew about what happened to Derrick and was shocked when I had a limited hold on my Paypal. Meaning I could accept money(when does a bank not take money) and payments, but I could not withdraw. The message was they were concerned someone besides me was accessing my account.
I went in to take care of it but couldn’t until I called by phone. By then I was overdrawn on my bank account. Why? Because I couldn’t withdraw.
the fellow at Paypal said it is because my Verizon Wireless Internet pings my location all over the country, so it looks like it is being accessed by others.
So there you go, if you use Verizon Wireless there is even more of a chance to be scrutinized by Paypal. Take care all and find a new
si estan jugando mucho de vivos es hora de que les pongan un alto al ataque chicos saludos de costa rica ,estoy limitado en paypal
Derrick
Thanks for letting us know this I’m passing this link to partner and friends
I very hate paypal and not use the paypal because they like suspend and close my account.
@Gardar
Hi Gardner, Can you share with me how you got a US bank account without travelling to the US?
Thanks
I am from South Africa – thank you for the warning against PayPal. If they can do that with one client, they can do that with any other client, and that includes me! I am not willing to take the change. I spend countless of hours – I search the web till 02:00 every morning – trying to figure out how to make money as an IM and I have already spend buckets full of US$ (I cannot afford) trying to find the right product (99,9% are absolutely worthless!) I can use to earn a decent but honest living. And when I do find the right thing (I hope that will happen soon!), how can I ever take the chance of being victimized by PayPal as an IM? So I will be going to AlertPay.com immediately and close my PayPal account ASAP. I can only hope that AlertPay.com will have the necessary respect for an ordinary but honest man like me.
Finally! May still awake? Rooster must bite in the ass to start thinking! Hooray! Go change!!!
Strewth! this Aussie is gunna have nightmares tonight – Paypal, Warrior Forum etc. etc. before I even start to make a decent living. Glad I have an Alert Pay account and for some time now. I have had no problems (yet?) with Paypal which runs 99% of my payment processing, but once I start getting rich, yikes!
Hey Derrick,
Thanks for the heads up about PayPal and IM product sales. I have heard this same story from several other people and I will definitely look into switching my IM product sales over to Alertpay and Clickbank.
Thanks,
In the world of business, no matter how small or large, traditional or totally online, these two words should always be remembered…. “DUE DILIGENCE”. There is also a very old saying, “Don’t Put All Your Eggs In One Basket”.
Most people that have an online business, working from home, are not business people … they have simply found a way to make a second income to help pay the bills. The world of finance involves how much they can collect and transfer to their bank account in the easiest way possible. That way has been PayPal. In some cases these small home-based businesses have exploded in success and doing the Due Diligence and securing that revenue stream is not even thought about. After all, why? Money is coming in, business is great! Being Proactive instead of Reactive is simply not practiced.
If using a 3rd party shopping cart system an online business should make sure they have a secondary, backup, credit card processor that is compatible with their shopping cart provider. If shut down by PayPal then downtime would be at a minimum while you switch to the backup.
PayPal has, very successfully, made themselves the absolute easiest, low cost, way to collect and pay for things online. Kudos for their strategy and business model, but they are not regulated and not a credit card company. They are acting as a credit card 3rd party processor, on your behalf. Most people cannot afford, or even know how to setup, a credit card merchant account. In fact, most would not even qualify.
PayPal is a U.S. company, AlertPay is Canadian (Yay, Canada!).
Due your Due Diligence, protect your business income, setup that 2nd, or even 3rd, 3rd party credit card processing.
I’ve been using PayPal since it was available to me. A couple of minor issues and they were pretty well my own fault. Well, I say “minor”, but I had a credit card banned because I was using it on 2 PayPal accounts back when a credit card was required for a PayPal account used to collect payments.
Due Diligence … I’m ready for an unfortunate even, are you?
Derrick, Todd,
I know a few people that this has happened to, some were able to sort it out with several phone calls and others simply lost out all the way.
I am inclined to agree that Alert Pay seems the way to go for now, with another backup option set in place, should the situation ever ‘hit the fan’ with them as well.
Can we get the Warrior Forum to add another option besides PayPal?
@Izak
Hi Izak, I am from South Africa too. PayPal has way too many restrictions for us. These processors work well for South Africans: http://www.monsterpay.com (best rates), http://www.payfast.co.za, http://www.alertpay.com
Derrick, Todd:
I do have an Alert Pay Account with no problems at all. I am ready to get your app software for merchant purposes.
As soon as I get your software I promise to close My “pay pal” account. (Notice the small caps)
I know you guys will deliver properly. Regards;
Hello,
I’ve running most of my affiliate business through clickbank, amazon and linkshare, so I haven’t been hurt by paypal yet. I’m going to open an account with alertpay TODAY.
Thanks for starting this thread and to everyone for sharing their paypal nightmares!
Derrick,
My blood boils every time I read another pay pal scam.
They are head hunting under the guise of protecting OUR customers without the expertise to do it while protecting THIER customers which are us.
Hope you and Todd get this straightened out for yourselves soon. Meanwhile doing everything I can to avoid using them at all. Thanks for the post
Ruben
I have had many options from PayPal over the years I have been with them, but, when they froze my account I raise all kinds of HELL….sent emails to all my lists and suggested that they use AlertPay…some did and some stayed and they got burned…I didn’t lose alot of money, but that does not matter. It is the idea that PayPal can freeze your account and NOT REFUND ANY MONEY I MAY HAVE IN IT….That is what ticked me off…So, I use Paypal for small items and I use AlertPay for everything else…they are really great…
Hi Derrick,
This is part of Russ Ruffino’s notes at the Warrior Event – it may be of interest to you:
The Big PayPal Issue – Why Are People Getting Banned?
Mike Cowles: Always let PayPal know ahead of time that you’re launching a WSO and you’re expecting high volume
Brad Gosse: Notifying them can be AS BAD as not notifying them because it can put you on the radar. This has happened to me. They sent me a letter saying, “You’ve been shut down, and don’t EVER contact us again.” I put a nasty post on my blog, it got picked up by a major tech blog, and within a WEEK I got my account back.
Don’t fear this. It’s a growing pain. This is a sign that you’re BOOMING and you’ve risen above the tide. They get scared because you’re not “the norm”. You can get put back in play, and once you get put back in play, they don’t mess with you again.
It is not just internet marketing they treat badly, Ebay sellers also get a bad rap. A friend of mine has around $60,000 held by paypal. They hold back money for 6 months or more sometimes.
He sells glass tables and other furniture, is a power seller with good feedback and been working on ebay for a number of years. It also happened with his daughter who sells shoes and dresses and has a totally separate account.
This is just a scam to hold our money and make interest on it. They are a law unto themselves and have too much power to mess with our money.
The problem is they are now an integral part of doing business online for many people.
I had a problem with paypal as well… I was having an eBay shop and they locked my account for Christmas time… I lost all my sales and almost went bankrupt… It was 2 years ago…
Since that time… lots of changed… I run a marketing agency and basically I am afraid to process online payments… so we are invoicing each client and they pay us via checque or bank transfer…
I need to find a solution though, because I am getting more engaged into speaking and promoting my consultancy and mentoring services from the stage. For the time being all the payments were processed by event organisers… I have a big ebent coming in July, where I need to process payments myself… Sometimes I have 10 or 15 transations (around 2k each) during a day…
Many people recommended to me paypal virtual terminal… I applied, however I haven’t heard back from them yet… To be honest I am afraid to use them…
What solution would you recommend to me, where I can process such payments without any hassle, freezing or limiting my account.
I heard lots of positives about AlertPay, but apparently they don’t support this type of payments.
I would really appreciate your advice.
Woah! What a wake-up call this thread is. Just signed up for Alert Pay. No matter that it’s not integrated yet with my membership CMS (FusionHQ) – some simple code & customization of AlertPay will soon take care of that.
And then it’s bye bye Paypal.
Dez.
@Derrick VanDyke
Thanks for the heads up. It is always important to maintain multiple payment options.
I am launching a membership site and will integrate alertpay. Anyone know good developers with Altertpay experience?
I believe they spin a wheel of misfortune and whom ever it lands on that’s the next un- fortunate lad they mess with. it’s total hell when you’re going through this cyber bullying.
Derrick…I understand your pain and I am very sorry it has happened to you. I had a similar experience with PayPal about a year ago. They held quite a few $$$$ and then released the funds in 30-days. After several years of successfully accepting payments through PayPal, my “freeze out” experience made me switch to Amazon Checkout.
Derrick,
I too am shocked at Paypal’s ineptitude and wrongful treatment of you. I’m reminded of a couple of other payment processing companies that went by the wayside because of their ineptitude: StormPay and GreenZap. I’m sure there are many others, too.
I’ve read most of the comments here, but one thing I haven’t seen as a possible solution/retaliation is to bombard the newswires with negative press releases about them. Isn’t that one of the more effective methods online marketers use to publicize something – usually a launch? So, why limit it to launches? News is news, right?
I mean, a class action lawsuit would certainly get their attention, but I imagine a lot of damage could (and should) be done for a minimal investment of time or money by cranking out some hard-hitting, factual press releases about the crap they’ve been pulling.
Think what would happen if hundreds of marketers flooded the web with negative press releases about PayPal and their bullshit. Like the ineptitude of not only biting the hand that feeds them by shutting down big earner’s accounts, but not actually knowing what they are banning before they ban it?
Seems like a company in decline to me…
Best wishes and be well,
Russ
Hi Derrick, I told your story to one of the social biz community site but some just don’t believe it… then I have put the link to your page, so they can read it themselves. Sad story… I do have an old account with Paypal but not huge amounts are going through it, so never had a problem. Hope you will be able to manage it and solve it somehow.
Success!
Teodor
If you have a real business then you don’t want to skimp on having a shopping cart setup like- one shopping cart or others.
It has been to easy for us to just use paypal (including me.)
Looks like we have to change.
Thank you for all the valuable comments on this topic.
The SAME thing just happened to me. I’m a 6-figure IM’er, and PayPal locked one of my accounts with over $25k in it. I’m fighting back through whatever channels I can! If you want the whole story, check out my blog at http://www.russruffino.com/pp!
Russ
Great info Russ. Everyone who has had their PayPal account frozen should read your post.
Hey Derrick my problem with Pay Pal was different. I had a bunch of guys that overtook my account and spent the money I had in there on their programs. They also got into my bank account. I reported this to Pay Pal and they did nothing about it. I asked for a history of my account and they refused to send it to me. Be careful people. These guys are people you all know!
Roxann, I had the same thing happen to me and PayPal did not return the funds. And my password was very strong.
Pingback: Anyone heard about the recent problems with PayPal and WSO's?
@Steve Nelson If you also send the customer a download link, simply write in the PayPal field for the shipping address that it was shipped to the customers email address e.g. Product was delivered to joe@doe.com
Or describe to them that the customer accessed the product on your download page at http://domain.com/thankyou.php
It helps with PayPal… anything is better then leaving that field blank.
2checkout is just as bad or worse than Paypal….
They called me to make sure I payed a 0.08 cents debt I owed them.
Then they cancelled my Alibaba type website.
Excuse: My business type was too much risk.
Seems to me there’s a case for a class action, frozen funds, loss of income for doing perfectly legit business? Can’t let them get away with it…
I feel you you Derrick, and all the other 1,000′s of people out their with similar stories, I hear them all the time.
I work for a company that’s a great alternative to PayPal, AlertPay & Credit Cards, We’re called Wikipay.?
We just won an award from Harvard Business School. We can save you 50 – 80% on on Merchant Service charges, no credit checks …
WikiPay’s a convenient way to pay and get paid using your mobile phone or computer.
WikiPay transforms any mobile phone into a convenient, easy and secure way to send or receive money and pay for go goods/services – anywhere, anytime, with anyone…
http://www.tiny.cc/WikiPay
https://www.facebook.com/WikiPayVIP
Always use “vip” as referrer at signup.
All the best,
Jeremy Green.
Oops sorry, I forgot to mention, click on WikiPay logo (top right) on link to go to Wikipay website. http://www.tiny.cc/WikiPay
People may not want to hear it, but the current political establishment doesn’t want the “common” person to be self sustaining. When it comes time for them to tighten the noose, you will not even be able to grow your own food, for fear that you will barter with it. THEY WANT YOU POOR!! So you have to depend on THEM. It’s about CONTROL. We are slaves, and Big “O” in the Big House is the massa. Check it out…Paypal is dropping any gun related sales items too. It’s POLITICS as usual.
Sorry to hear that Derrick. I sell service at warrior forum and several other marketing forum, also doing affiliate marketing. I also just got my paypal account closed permanently!
I think I got closed about the same time as you Derrick. And it’s suck! Funny thing is I just got my payment from Maxbounty sent to my limited account and paypal happily accept them.
I have not much balance left in it, but I’m a non US and several hundred dollars are enough to feed my family for a month, but oh well..
I’m going to use my long forgotten 2checkout account, open an alertpay account and have to look for a merchant account.
Anyone can suggest decent international merchant account? I checked on authorize.net and seems like they don’t accept international merchant. Any advice will be much appreciated.
Best,
Justin
P.S. I was looking at optin apps developer/PLR license and decided to buy it right before I got limited, I was very interested but now idk when I can purchase that.. grrr
I feel for you Derrick, and all the other 1,000?s of people out their with similar stories, I hear them all the time.
I work for a company that’s a great alternative to PayPal, AlertPay & Credit Cards, We’re called Wikipay.?
We just won an award from Harvard Business School. We can save you 50 – 80% on on Merchant Service charges, no credit checks …
WikiPay’s a convenient way to pay and get paid using your mobile phone or computer.
WikiPay transforms any mobile phone into a convenient, easy and secure way to send or receive money and pay for go goods/services – anywhere, anytime, with anyone…
http://www.tiny.cc/WikiPay click on WikiPay logo (top right) on link to go to Wikipay website.
Always use “vip” as referrer at signup.
All the best,
Jeremy Green.
If anyone is looking for more info on Wikipay the is some on our Facebook page… https://www.facebook.com/WikiPayVIP
Hi Derrick,
I had the same thing happen to me too and I had a PayPal account for 11 years with no complaints or problems. I ended up having to temporarily shut down my WorksTeam membership site until I change over the membership software to use other payment gateways than PayPal. PayPal cancelled all my members subscriptions and even called one member asking all kinds of questions. Fortunately he knew me well enough to realize I wasn’t doing anything unethical, and called to let me know. This site is just a training site with a library of training videos and other resources to help anyone market their business. I posted the details of what they did and their lame reasons on my WorksTeam blog.
Glad to hear you have found AlertPay good. I’ve already set up an account and plan on using them and possibly 2CheckOut and/or a regular merchant account.
Hi Derrick,
I had the same thing happen to me too and I had a PayPal account for 11 years with no complaints or problems. I ended up having to temporarily shut down my WorksTeam membership site until I change over the membership software to use other payment gateways than PayPal. PayPal cancelled all my members subscriptions and even called one member asking all kinds of questions. Fortunately he knew me well enough to realize I wasn’t doing anything unethical, and called to let me know. This site is just a training site with a library of training videos and other resources to help anyone market their business. I posted the details of what they did and their lame reasons on my WorksTeam blog.
Glad to hear you have found AlertPay good. I’ve already set up an account and plan on using them and possibly 2CheckOut and/or a regular merchant account.
yup… i lost two account with permanently suspend..I will stand with you, mate
yay
Welcome to the Club.
We should all be moving to ALERT PAY, as they allow “higher risk” activities such as what PayPal don’t want to know about.
See my link above (Internet Marketers Against PayPal).
Brad
Do you think that if I use rapid action profits, my PayPal account can be frozen? I mean, money does not go to my account, it goes to affilieate’s account.
And if I am getting paid affiliate commissions (I’m not selling my own product) to my PayPal, do you think I can be frozen as well? And how about instant affiliate commissions?
Matt
Hi guys,
Sounds terrible! First thing though, none of these comments/articles have dates. When did this happen June 2011 or May 1993? This sort of information is only useful when it is fresh. After that it is of historical interest only.
hi, derrick,
thanks for the heads up! i’m sorry this happened to you!
paypal has never been my favorite, since they won’t pay out money to us residing in colombia, south america, as though they would stop money laundering in this way! first they should shut down banking operations in cayman islands, panama, liechtenstein, etc!
long time ago i opened an alertpay account, when they still were unknown, and never had any trouble. all IMers should do the same and screw paypal!
kind regards from warm colombia,
tom
Derrick,
Sorry to hear about your situation with Pay Pal. But, we can all benefit from the information you are sharing with us.
Thanks
Robert
Hi Derrick,
Alright so after hearing all the horror stories about paypal, I consdering switching to another service. Now I have been part of your “your first thousand” and I signed up for sure fire profit system.
I do see that you still have paypal as one of the options for sure fire profits so my question is are you going to change to another payment processor like maybe paydotcom?
Regards,
Edson Buchanan
Paypal is organized scam,..save your money now,.
Hey everyone…
My account at Paypal was also frozen. They did not give notice they simply froze me. Good luck getting your money right away. Think about all of the money they are making with interest through their bank. It makes me livid!
For 12 years I had that account and not a single complaint.
OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
Sharon
~The Baby Boomer Queen~
This post is very helpful. Great information. Thank you very much.
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Wow that absolutely sucks!!..
Thanks for the heads up as I am just getting into forward motion with this online business. I have been utilizing the web for my previous businesses since it’s birth and there has never been opportunity quite like there is at this point in time.. I will look into the AlertPay system and I thank you for the tip off.
After reading the comments here I see you are not alone in this “scam” this is absolutely unexceptionable. forget the petition i don’t know what that is going to accomplish to tell you the truth.
Myself, I definitely think a class action lawsuit would get their attention. The point could be made for a minimal investment of time or money. I bet my attorney would go right after it, he is a stand up guy and trusts my opinion. When did this happen anyhow?
I think they should pay all you guys back with the Quan they have.. Aww that would piss me rt off.. excuse the french. They would not here the end of it until they paid me or someone, I’d be at there offices every morning with bells on… wow. Thanks again! mj
@michael jelecic, PayPal froze my account in June. I did get my money just a few weeks ago. But I am banned from using PayPal again (not that I’d want to anyway). I have a merchant account through PowerPay.biz. I have 4 ClickBank accounts, and a corporate AlertPay account. So I think I’m covered.
I believe it is very true i see it also here in belgium. There is even a General shuttdown
On à clickbank like affiliate program for entrepreneurs. And this by
Januari 2012. No i have THE luck That à belgian aquirer bank is supporting
Us in cheap aquirement payments on all major credit and debet cards
And also accepting and processing recuring billing
Will certainly try alertpay !!!
Greets marco from belgium
WOW! What a read! I’ve been online for several years using Paypal and can remember hearing stories similar to this way back in 2006 and never really took it to heart. I guess I have been really lucky as I have had no problems but I can see the writing on the wall…literally…by what I’ve read in this thread. I’ll be switching over to Alert Pay first thing on Monday. If it’s any conciliation to you, Derrick and Todd, you have done a huge service to ALL of us by what you have posted here about your experience. I know you have saved my account from a similar disaster and for that I thank you! I am all for what Russ has suggested. If someone would set up a site where everyone who has had their accounts scammed by PP and has documented proof of their experience that they can share, those experiences can be compiled into some very interesting press releases. If all of us here would spread the word about that website and get people to write up those pressies and send them out it would do HUGE damage to PP in the long run. Heck, I could write up a pressy and run it through The Best Spinner and get out 100 different versions sent in an afternoon drinking a beer. I bet a ton of others would be willing to do that as well. A crap ton of bad press by all of us IM’rs would do more damage than any lawsuit would ever do. If something ever gets started from this….count me in..=)
Paypals a con as I joined a program and they didnot deliver what was sold and allowed refunds and when I applied for refund Paypal refused after site agreed to refund which ended up not as Paypal said no refund. It makes me wonder who is the owner of these sites as it was blatant fraud [ earnindollar.com ] Stole the money by not supplying product then Paypal refused refund again allowing this fraud to happen over and over to everyone plus myself. I think Paypal are running these fraudulent companies and that they are the thiefs as why else would they refuse the refund after company offered. It seems I have proved that Paypal is a fraudulent company running several fraud sites and shows how desperate the world has become. DoNOT Trust PayPal as refund policy is Lies for the customers and protection only for the company whos stealing from you! Ask yourself Whos the theif the one that steals from you or the One That ALLOWS it PAYPAL!